I guess we’re getting hung up on the “life is better now” concept, which may be an issue of semantics. Assessing the degree to which any ancient peoples had better balance between the universe and their physical and emotional needs seems difficult to quantify. What is coarsely quantifiable are the factors I discussed in my last comment: lower overall mortality due to disease, starvation, or even conflict, which is not limited to people of European descent — i.e. the vast majority of humans don’t have to spend the day simply trying to stay alive. Speaking of Europe, we can list pages of horrible times of conflict, marked by ruthless and barbaric conquests to steal land, territory, and dignity from other groups of people. I’m no historian, but humans conquering humans seems to be a historical constant and not necessarily relevant to the topic of this book: the sharp rise in mental health issues in the last decade or so.

Again, I’m not a mental health professional either, but the data seems convincing to my untrained eye: a prevalence of online culture and easy access to diversions is associated with a sharp rise in anxiety and other mental health issues in very recent history. While you’ll hear no argument from me that certain ethnic groups or cultures have a higher share of mental health issues stemming from some of the issues you’ve discussed, my reading of the book suggests that technologically modern humans have experienced a concerning “bulk shift” as we’ve taken more time to frankly stare at screens. Pre-existing causes for emotional trauma — those you’ve discussed — are being amplified by our modern diversions.

I really didn’t read this book as anything that minimizes or judges the struggles of others, but as a guide to offer hope in the face of quick access to a (usually depressing) 24-hour news cycle and faux-highlight reels on social media. These are problems for anyone with an internet signal and a phone.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Mr. CC! Love this convo.

Yes, I 100% agree that when you’re comfortable and all your physical needs are met it’s much easier to focus on all that is lacking emotionally / mentally / spiritually. That’s why I go backpacking. Its an emotional relief to be physically uncomfortable and even a little on the edge of survival danger. I also agree that you don’t have to go backpacking to break this cycle, you can train your mind to think positively and maximize positive forces in your life aka home, community, values, etc. I guess what I don’t agree with is that somehow its better now that our physical needs are met at the expense of the other needs. Indigenous cultures were/are not always comfortable but had/have a greater degree of balance between the universe and their physical/ emotional / mental / spiritual needs. Many feel they were better off before they were “gifted” modern comforts and all the diseases, forced assimilation, systematic racism, and genocide that came with it. One of my native colleagues once told me, “your work will be better if you can admit America was better off when we were in charge.” I didn’t understand it fully at the time but I do now. No doubt if you compare people of European descent now and in the middle ages, there is astronomical improvement in all areas. I am just saying it’s not that way for everyone. Yes, as white people, this is a useful perspective, but I am worried that if we try to apply this perspective to the grievances of other cultures and judge them for giving too many fucks, we belittle their very real lived experience.

Oohhh, I appreciate this a lot and I value the perspective. Thanks so much.

While you are certainly not the first to claim that Manson’s take is white-guy centric, I’d still agree with the assertion that almost all humans have to work less to simply survive, regardless of demographics. Few of us hunt or grow food out of necessity, for example. Certainly some groups have undeniably suffered from a socioeconomic standpoint due to imperialism, manifest destiny, etc, but providing life is easier than it was in past centuries, even for those in poverty. The biggest dilemmas facing societies today, at least in America, are societal issues (racism, sexism, partisan bickering). Basic elements of survival (food, water, shelter) are in place for almost anyone, which is a historically very new concept. Take a look at data on malnutrition, starvation, or even macro death rates. Almost all have declined significantly, particularly since the Industrial Revolution.

Speaking for Manson, I think he’d argue that if we fixed racism (certainly a worthy ambition), we’d find a new grievance. For instance, there are plenty of examples of intraracial discrimination based on other physical and societal characteristics. Or when we fix starvation, we gain obesity.

To your second point about brain science, I think we are talking the same language. The issue in modern times is where and how we are getting chronic and emotional trauma. As basic necessities of life no longer fill our time, we introduce more and more maladaptive ways to fill the day to fend off boredom, etc. The more maladaptive strategies we implement, the more magnified our petty grievances become.

Either way, this all fascinates me and I’ll be adding your book recommendation to my queue!

Wow…thank you. I agree that FIRE material can get redundant, and often just flirts with some of these underlying causes of why we do what we do. Hence my focus on emotions, happiness, and the pursuit of contentment in life. It’s a modern problem. I’ll tell ya what, check back on next week’s post and I’ll expand from there.

Care to dive a little deeper into any one of the rabbit holes this post opens up? Particularly as it relates to the FI community?

“Maybe we get more emotionally fragile bc we also have a lot of info at our fingertips and thru boredom and searching for any answer as to what this internal uncomfortableness with life is, we find more and more things to label it. And then for every label, there’s a fix or improvement, or way to make it better.”

This!

Thanks so much for your comment and the courage to share. Obviously I agree with your sentiment. The more we can see (and the more folks can portray a curated image to the world), the more discontent we feel. Clearly, a real trauma will always be something leaving us with deep emotional scars, but much of our modern discontent can simply be explained by exactly what you’ve explained.

Then I take stock of everything, I look around and totally get the argument about the richer you get the more petty your concerns become.

I have nothing to complain about really. Oh, waahhh,my career got derailed at peak earnings. Boohoo I got and am still experiencing free time in my 40’s and am set up well enough financially to do it. Of course I should be depressed. 🤦🏻‍♂️🙄

I struggle with the depression occasionally, regardless of circumstances and I just have to accept that. Sometimes it feels like a fail and others I think, look man. You’re not discontent with life universe, everything, it’s literally just brain chemistry making you feel down or listless.

It’s weird looking at it like that but it is freeing accepting it may be something that I don’t have control over, in the sense that I can’t get it to go away by changing diet, adding exercise, more exercise, therapy, discipline, schedules, routines. None of that makes it increase or decrease, so I have to accept that.
Maybe we get more emotionally fragile bc we also have a lot of info at our fingertips and thru boredom and searching for any answer as to what this internal uncomfortableness with life is, we find more and more things to label it. And then for every label, there’s a fix or improvement, or way to make it better.
And even a way to turn it into normalizing whatever you’re feeling. And then groups to talk with other people about what you’re feeling. While it’s really empowering to have that access at our fingertips, as I type this from my phone on my couch, watching a basketball game being played live 4 states over, I wonder if the old adage, ignorance is bliss, really is true.

The more you know, the more you have to compare yourself against, good and bad, and maybe that plays into it as well. Not just material things, but also “happiness” that EVERYONE’S life exudes on the curated pages of Instagram, FB, and more.

Whereas back in the day, you didn’t know much of anything outside of a full days ride away, so you just had your immediate people to compare with and they were in the same state, class, position, as you. Just my thoughts on it.

Sorry for the rambling novella length comment. 😆🤦🏻‍♂️