Charlie is indeed his first name, but I playfully made up the “Brown” part. Isn’t that fun?! Charlie has asked to remain partially anonymous (as we do here), because he’s discussing some stuff that his bosses might not like. We get it — nothing says I want a big bonus this year like “save money, retire early, blah, blah” on the internet.
The real Charlie Brown is kind of a downer, but not this Charlie. He and his wife are gaming out their life, and that’s pretty cool.
Charlie reached out to me recently after I posted an interview with Mark Anderson. We’ve both lurked around the Rock Prodigy training forum (which I recommend) for a number of years, and I’ve admired his analytical approach to getting better at climbing. In fact, he created a tracking spreadsheet for cataloging outdoor achievements and I’ve been using it for years!
Charlie noticed that I was looking for more people to feature on the site, and he emailed me to discuss the sort of things we discuss here: rock climbing, saving money, investing, and financial freedom. That’s what we do here folks.
A bit of introduction…
Charlie is 30 years old and lives in a small town north of Salt Lake City, UT. He and his wife purchased their first home in 2013, rode the housing wave, and nearly doubled their money when they sold last year. They’re now in a new place, and Charlie even has an Anderson-esque barn for home training.
I see a lot of parallels in Charlie to my own life: we’re big into climbing, but we’ve also decided to follow a career and not live hand-to-mouth in pursuit of this sport. No judgement to those that do, but it’s just not the life for us…yet at least. As previously described, we’re the optimizers. We work during the week, and get after it on the weekends. Charlie is not a pro climber, he’s not even a sponsored climber. He’s like many of us — absolutely in love with this sport but living an otherwise traditional life.
Charlie and his wife are DINK’s (double income, no kids). Is that not the best, most oddly offensive-sounding acronym you’ve ever heard? Always a good time with that acronym. Who ever gave me a keyboard and a domain name?
Charlie also mentions Dave Ramsey a number of times in the interview below. Ramsey is a well-known figure in the world of personal finance, largely dedicated to getting folks out of debt. His messages diverge a bit from the FIRE community, but if you’re starting from a big hole of debt, he’s worth a look.
Enter Charlie…
Charlie: I started climbing in 2004 after an ACL injury diverted my attention from skateboarding. I was recreational until about 2010 when we moved to Utah. I got tired of waiting in line for the “moderates” and wanted to try more. Trying harder and training became addictive. The Rock Prodigy method as prescribed by the Anderson brothers has really made a difference. Sticking to a long-term plan which has seemingly small gains over a long time really adds up. How’s that for a financial analogy? (Mr. CC: True.)
My climbing ability depends greatly on style. 5.10 slab scares me. Otherwise, I can onsight most 11a’s. Multiple successful redpoints of 5.12 sport routes (close on a couple trad routes), and then I 1-hung my 5.13a sport project this fall. I definitely prefer trad, but realized I had to change my focus to get stronger and get more mileage over rock. This year has been pretty 50/50 on sport/trad, with a really heavy focus on pushing it on sport.
CC Edit: Sorry non-climbers, that’s a lot of jargon. I refuse to explain all those terms. In layman’s terms, Charlie is a relatively advanced climber. Except on slab. Same here.
In (Aero)space with Charlie
Charlie: I’m an aerospace engineer. Not quite a rocket scientist as my work stays in this atmosphere. I’ve been doing that for 8 years. It’s stable, so, I don’t make as much as my peers, but I have relatively low risk of ever losing that job. My wife is a sales operations manager for an outdoor gear manufacturer. She had a number of jobs leading up to that position and has been with the company for 4 years but in the outdoor industry for 7.
By the Numbers…
Charlie: For income, I’ll say that we are in the 85th percentile. I will gladly say that we pay $20k a year in federal income taxes. This usually results in a side-rant about how I think paying $15 for an 8×10 plot of dirt in the desert to camp is overpriced for someone who donates such a high amount to Uncle Sam, but I digress. Our only debt is the house, which is around $250k. We’re on a 15 year fixed mortgage at 3%. As it stands, using our enabling tool (BUDGET!), we are putting our dollars to harder work and hoping to pay it off in 11 years.
Spending…
If you combine all necessary expenses and subtract the mortgage, our yearly expenses come out to around $27k. Add on some “fun” things like climbing gear, tools, travel, dining out, entertainment, etc. and you end up with $44k.
It wasn’t always like this. Our first year together we made (combined) $50k. We learned how to be frugal pretty quick.
Financial problems are the #1 reason for divorce…It was just a matter of taking the ideas, putting them on paper, and setting it into motion.
Savings Rate…
We invest ~20% excluding savings. With savings, we’re at ~30%. We’re shuffling that around a little next year to pay off the house sooner.
CC Edit: For clarification, we define anything not spent on bills, rent/mortgage, food, and other discretionary items as savings. We just happen to invest nearly all of our savings. Essentially…
Savings = Gross Income – Expenses
Back to Charlie…
We tithe 10% to our church, and donate another 2% to other charities. We save ~10%, mostly to pad the emergency fund as well as front-load future vehicle purchases. We’re also investing another 11% (prior to any matching) into IRAs. I invest 5% into the 401(k), and get a matching 5% out of it. Our mortgage is 21% of our take-home pay. That’s a little high but falls under the Dave Ramsey 25% rule.
For more on investing strategies and investing “buckets”, check out our two-part series.
Financial problems are the #1 reason for divorce. I’m glad that my wife and I were both on the same chapter when we got married. Through a little work we got on the same page. For us, it actually wasn’t that hard. It was just a matter of taking the ideas, putting them on paper, and setting it into motion.
So many people balk at the idea of a budget, as if it’s some inhibiting tool. That’s like saying you don’t use your gas gauge on your car because it only tells you when you’re out.
Financial Independence
Charlie: I hadn’t heard the term until stumbling on your blog (CC Edit: Winning!) However, the concept has been in my mind since my college days (10ish years ago) with an introduction to Dave Ramsey.
Charlie: It wasn’t until my first year working that I really got serious about a budget and tracking every dollar. So many people balk at the idea of a budget, as if it’s some inhibiting tool. That’s like saying you don’t use your gas gauge on your car because it only tells you when you’re out. That’s not true! It’s a tool, an enabling one, that helps you set your pace and direction. It helps you know when to stop, when to start, and where you have to make changes. It’s an eye opening process and can help build, maintain, or change spending habits as necessary.
The “Why” of Financial Independence?
Charlie: Dave Ramsey says it best: The borrower is slave to the lender. Money is power. When you owe money to someone, they have power over you. Why do we so willingly give up our independence to start with? I suppose there are many promises about what you can do while in debt. Maybe some debts are “smarter” than others (like a mortgage…within bounds). But I can’t imagine being in a position where I owe on my car, student loans, a trailer, 4-wheelers, kitchen appliances, and a house. It’s shocking what is offered to be financed these days.
So there’s an underlying drive which is probably my inner rebel saying “no, you won’t tell me what to do” to become debt-free and later financially independent. That being said, I don’t see us retiring in the traditional sense. That sounds like a recipe for boredom. Rather, I’d hope with our financial stability that we are able to more easily bless and give to others, donate to causes and organizations we believe in, and do the “fun” jobs that didn’t pay enough when we were younger.
Lessons
Charlie: I’ll be the first to admit that we’ve been very blessed in our financial ventures. However, this was not “luck of the draw.” We made a series of smart financial decisions too (like investing, buying our house when we did, and saving hard) to enable our current living situation. I think the mistake that many young adults make is that they try to achieve their parents’ standard of living right after moving out. You can’t. And in many ways, that’s good. If you can learn how to live within your limits in that time frame, those habits will continue to multiply their affect as you work your way up the financial ladder.
Next, I’ll reiterate a Dave Ramsey analogy: a closed fist won’t lose any money, but it can’t accept any either. An open palm can give and receive. The point is that if you clench your money and become inwardly focused, you will not glean any lasting effects from it. You may even become unhappy even with a large bank account. Do not neglect the giving aspect of personal finances.
Next, BUDGET. Give every dollar a job, track them, and make changes as necessary. It has to be a living, breathing, changing budget to accommodate life changes so don’t make it so rigid that you have no room for adjustment.
Finally, don’t expect to get rich overnight. You won’t. The right choices add up over time.
Until Next Time…
Well that’s it folks. Very wise words from Charlie, and I’m grateful he reached out. It’s really that simple folks. If you can be thoughtful and deliberate about your relationship with money, the pieces will fall into place.
Use money as a vehicle for freedom, not a means for immediate gratification.
There’s no doubt that Charlie and his wife are set for a very solid financial future. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine not worrying about money?
If you or someone you know has an interesting story, we want to hear about it! Keep em coming.
See you guys next week.
-Mr. CC
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