Heather Larsen: Risk And Reward In Outdoor Careers

Today on episode 61 I’m pleased to welcome Heather Larsen, pro slackliner and climber and lover of southern Utah’s desert heat. What is probably less known about Heather is that, following humble beginnings, she graduated at the height of the Great Recession with a double major in finance and economics.

In the intervening years, she struggled greatly to find work in her field, even competing for bank teller jobs with 20-year finance veterans. Out west she found work in seasonal park service positions, growing more and more fond of the outdoors, eventually discovering climbing and slacklining.

Heather could have easily fallen into a mindset of defeat. But with persistence, she was eventually able to secure a career in financial reporting, enabling her preferred lifestyle balance of elite outdoor adventure and self-made financial security.

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Brent Barghahn: Real Estate Investing and the Future of Home Ownership

Today on episode 59 I’m pleased to host Brent Barghahn, a 29-year-old elite climber who used real estate investment as a way to effectively “retire” from his career as an engineer in the outdoor industry in his late twenties.

Brent and I discussed a fascinating reality on the idea of dream jobs, the growing trend of short-duration careers (and what that means for society), and of course many details on Brent’s path to financial strength and community building through his preferred method of real estate investment. Of course, though, I wanted to discuss the stark differences in today’s high interest rate and sky-high price environment, which has changed markedly in the last year. It begs the question: can someone still be successful as a real estate investor today? I have my concerns, so we aired out some of them in today’s episode.

Finally, we take an interesting look at the realities of full-time climbing and why Brent has found he needs more. Also, Brent and I admittedly harbor negative sentiments on the world of social media, especially in climbing. What narratives and stories are being missed by the modern form of shallow media consumption?

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Lean Out: The Achievement Paradox with Dawn Baker

Today on episode 57 I’m pleased to welcome Dawn Baker, a board-certified anesthesiologist, wife, mother, climber, coach, and now the author of a new book about the perils of, as she puts it, an intense need to achieve. And Dawn has walked the walk. After years of hard-driving pursuit of linear improvement in both career and climbing, she suffered crushing fatigue and malaise, and ultimately faced a major health crisis during her residency. If that wasn’t enough, she was then plagued with infertility problems. The result was expensive and demoralizing rounds of in-vitro fertilization, an approach that ultimately proved successful and led to the birth of her daughter.

The need for achievement and success is so pervasive in our culture. And this interview is not just for downtown or medical center careerists. This is as much a discussion of climbing and our hobbies, which can so often derail into something quite different from our original healthy and recreational pursuits.

Today, Dawn’s life with her husband and daughter is so different. Through evaluation of her core values, married with a strong financial position, she now works “very part time,” and has moved with her family to a homestead in the high plateaus of southern Utah. But in choosing to step away, or lean out, as Dawn says, we risk our position and standing in the social hierarchy. This is much a discussion of status as it is of lifestyle.

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Five Lessons from Three Years of Financial Independence

One evening, circa 2011, I sat over dinner with my future wife in our small and sweaty Houston, TX rented bungalow. I was and still am an occasional cheap bastard, so the air conditioning was almost certainly set to engage on an “as-needed” basis, far from anything resembling comfort. The concept of financial independence wasn’t on the radar.

During downtime at work—I told you I was distracted—I was scouring numerous free WordPress blogs documenting the travels of zealous climbing dirtbags. They were camping and climbing and making whatever money they needed along the way. People were even starting to live and travel in vans, something I associated with sixties and seventies surfer culture. I wanted that life.

At this point in my late twenties, I was maybe barely a year into my career as a geologist in the oil and gas industry. But I could see the writing on the wall—this would not and could not be my career for the next 35-40 years. In fact, at that moment, I couldn’t see myself lasting my target three to five years until I expected to return to school for a career in academia. And there was a new problem: I’d kind of grown obsessed with this new hobby of rock climbing.

Twelve years later, I finally found a very different path to a life of freedom, if such a thing even exists. After three years of financial independence, what follows are some key lessons I’ve learned along the way.

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Darrow Kirkpatrick: Beyond Doubt on the Colorado Trail

Today on episode 55 I’m honored to welcome Darrow Kirkpatrick, former engineer, climber, investor, author, and the creator of the popular blog CanIRetireYet.com. Darrow began serious saving and investing in his mid-30s and retired at age 50 in 2011 from a career in software engineering.

In this wide-ranging interview, we explore why Darrow stepped away from personal finance writing after creating a popular blog, his adventures on the Colorado Trail and the inspiration for a memoir, and the journey and struggle to finding meaning and purpose at any stage in life.

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Lee Cujes: No Free Lunch on the Life We Really Want

Today on episode 53 I’m pleased to welcome back Lee Cujes, this time as a podcast guest. Some of you may recall the written interview with Lee back in late 2020. Lee is an elite Australian climber and route developer, with multiple 5.13+ and 5.14 first ascents to his name. But most importantly as it relates to this platform, Lee has managed to climb and develop routes continuously while carving a unique career niche and embracing a long-term investing strategy, an approach that provides the ultimate work and life balance.

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Joy and Tyler Black on Career, Money Mindsets, and Parenting

Today’s guests on episode 51 are Joy and Tyler Black. Many of you may be familiar with Joy, who has rapidly built a successful online business as a coach for pregnant and postpartum rock climbers. If you follow Joy on Instagram, you know her as a fun-loving and engaging mother of three, with a reputation for solid technical and personal coaching. Tyler on the other hand, is not a climber at all. He’s a biologist with a contrasting, yet highly complementary personality. In that way, they make for fantastic interview subjects on the discussion of relationships, money, career, and parenting.

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Three Important Myths on Delaying a Career

A combination of economic and cultural influences are propelling the trend of delayed adulthood. Through low-commitment job grazing, one can pursue recreational pursuits into the years previously occupied by traditional adult responsibilities: marriage, careers, parenting, and even home ownership.

Some might say YOLO. Life isn’t as short as we think, but our ability to get ahead might be.

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The Anticipation Of The Thing Is Greater Than The Thing

We are prone to believing that outcomes will have stronger emotional impacts on us than they often do. This state of expectation, or impact bias, highlights why anticipation of an event is a much more palpable emotion than the event itself. The impact bias can lead to behaviors that make us less content despite our best efforts for happiness.

Let’s learn more about how to recognize this bias and make better decisions for our future.

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It’s Not All Hard Luck with Shay Skinner

In her late teens and early twenties, Shay Skinner was disowned from her family. She struggled with crushing mental illness, which ultimately culminated in a suicide attempt that left her in financial ruin. From this dismal situation, Shay filed for bankruptcy and began a long and fruitful climb toward being whole again. How can we summon the courage to take such measures of personal accountability?

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