I’m sort of fascinated with the concept of fear. It’s the entire subject of this post, but it’s also something I weave into a lot of my thinking and writing. Steve Bechtel told us how fear affects his clients, noting the powerful, crippling effect of worry, inaction, and ultimately⏤unfulfilled potential. All the best ideas mean nothing when we lay catatonic and hesitant to act on those ideas. It therefore seemed suitable for me to reach out to Hazel Findlay.
Hazel Findlay is a UK-based professional climber known for bold, traditional ascents. To use the American parlance, Hazel steps up to the plate.
Not only has Hazel learned to harness and use fear to propel her climbing career, but she’s begun a coaching career in tandem to mold and shape the fear of others. And speaking of fear, we discuss how her blossoming climbing career nearly came to an early end.
Introduction
Hazel Findlay, now 30, started climbing at six years old. While she briefly entertained the indoor competition scene, she ultimately found her main motivation on rock. Hazel became the world’s first British woman to climb E9 (British for scary and dangerous), has freed El Capitan in Yosemite four times, and returned from a nearly career-ending shoulder injury to redpoint a 5.14b sport line in Spain (her second).
And to top it all, in November of 2019 Hazel put down Magic Line (5.14c) in Yosemite, one of the most physically difficult traditional climbs on the planet.
Hazel is no leathery and calloused hard-woman.
Or is she…?
Anyway…😉
She’s stands at an imposing height of 5’2″ and appears to have all her teeth. She’s not so different from any of us.
She’s faced many of the decisions we all face in life: finding balance and sense of place in the realm between childhood’s end and firm adulthood. She considered buying a house and bought one. She’s built a business and expanded it.
But there’s still a good chunk of her time that she wants to devote to her sense of freedom, away from the prying eyes of social media and professional climbing expectations. I relate with this entirely, but I want you to hear it from Hazel.
Hazel Findlay on Mastery
CC: You started climbing at a young age. Although time spent in pursuit of the sport is certainly an advantage, not all youth participants will go on to have the sort of career you have enjoyed. How have you capitalized on your time spent in this sport to stand out?
Hazel: I really just followed my passion and did things I was personally motivated for. Any career success was a by-product of all that dedication to the sport, not my aim.
CC: To expand on the question above, what do you think is least understood on what it takes to climb at a high level? What’s missing from the headlines?
Hazel: I think to climb at a super elite level maybe you need to be a little possessed by climbing. I’m not at that very top top level, but to climb at my level I think you need to have climbed a long time and really really love it.
Harnessing Fear
CC: You are known for bold traditional ascents. There is a very real and visceral fear you have to overcome to even step off the ground. Knowing what you process to achieve your climbing goals, what are your thoughts on how fear holds us back, in life and climbing?
Hazel: Fear is there for a reason, it’s useful so we don’t die or hurt ourselves.
However, fear can be very useless in the sense that it doesn’t help us get where we really want to go. Fear of hurting ourselves, fear of what other people think, or fear of failure might arise even when the situation doesn’t require those emotions. In other words, they are irrational fears.
I try to notice these fears and make sure I’m not limiting or distracting myself by them. Do something because you love it, not because you’re scared of what might happen if you don’t, and vice versa.
Hazel Findlay as a Mental Training Coach
CC: You now coach clients on their mental training for rock climbing. What is the most common issue you see in climbers? Can you speculate on the roots of these fears?
Hazel: The most common issues I deal with are fear of falling and fear of failure.
The two fears can be connected but there are things you can do to pull them apart and test what is limiting you most. Both fears are kind of in our makeup.
Evolution didn’t design us to enjoy hanging around on cliff edges or falling through the air. Evolution also wanted us to make sure we do well compared to the others. Humans are primed to protect our own egos and status compared to others.
If we fail, this says something about us, this says we fall down the pecking order. So much of this fear is a subconscious driver and we’re not aware much of the time what is influencing our reactions and decisions. We like to think we are more in control of our minds than we actually are.
A Near Career-Ending Injury
CC: Much has been written — by yourself and others — about your experience with a labrum tear and subsequent surgery in 2015. The culmination of this experience was your eventual success on Mind Control, which signaled a return to largely pain-free climbing.
This is a great story, but I want to know what it was like in your mind when you were forced to lay low and deal with this injury, not making significant ascents or other news-worthy achievements? Did you feel your career was at risk?
It’s fascinating to me to think that some careers —professional athletes, surgeons, musicians — are a simple injury away from having to completely reinvent their career and therefore their lives. Did this experience scare you? What would you have done if you couldn’t recover and climb at a high level anymore?
Hazel: Yes it was a very hard time. There were three years where I didn’t climb above the grade I usually warm up on.
I was worried I’d lose my career but I think my biggest fear was not being able to climb how I love to climb – which is trying really hard. You can’t let go when you have an injury so that joy of being in flow and at my limit was absent.
I’m not sure what I would have done, probably pursued my coaching career more conscientiously by going back to university and doing psychology or something.
Hazel Findlay on the Livelihood of a Professional Climber
CC: Climbers in the US make notably little money from sponsors. Is there a different mindset in the UK and Europe about how professional climbers should be paid? Do you foresee your coaching efforts becoming a larger share of your income (or is it already)? Do you have any other sources of income?
Hazel: Climbers in the States make way more money than those in Europe or elsewhere for the obvious reason that most of the brands are USA-based and the biggest market is in the USA.
Coaching and speaking might make up about half my income and then the other half is sponsorship – mostly from Black Diamond. I think I can go on doing the pro climber thing for many years to come. I know many pro climbers in their 40s and some even in their 50s.
Growing Salaries in Climbing
CC: As the sport continues to grow, some climbers are beginning to make very comfortable salaries. Perhaps you are one of them. How do you feel about the clash of money in climbing and the historical “dirtbag” roots, ala Camp 4, etc.?
Hazel: I certainly don’t make a lot of money from sponsorship but I do make a livable wage.
Being in my house does make me feel a little weird. I went from living in the back of a car, to a pretty dirt-bag van to a house in the space of seven years. So I’m not used to feeling like a real person with real money.
Many of my friends couldn’t afford the house I’m in, so I do sometimes feel bad that I’m making a living from doing something I love.
Often there is a fine line between gratitude and guilt. We feel lucky but also feel bad that others aren’t in our position. But most of us, I think, will have some sense of that. The sense that there are so many people in the world that aren’t doing OK and we are.
A Life After Professional Climbing
CC: Where do you see yourself professionally when elite-level climbing drifts “to the back burner?”
Hazel: I’ll probably do more coaching work. I’m moving in to corporate coaching. I’d like to coach performance psychology to non-climbers. I may train as a psychologist – who knows! For now though I’ll keep developing what I’m doing and pushing my own climbing before I get too old!
The Demands of Social Media
I’m not sure how much longer I want to do the whole social media thing. At some point it might be nice to close the door on the world and live a more private life. It takes a big emotional toll sharing your life with 150,000 people and trying not to be affected by their opinions and views.
CC: I completely understand! Are you actually contractually obligated by your sponsors to participate, or is it more of an unspoken expectation? Many pro climbers have bemoaned the social media expectations, but it’s never been clear to me whether or not it’s required. Some have refused, perhaps at the detriment of their careers (Hayden Kennedy comes to mind).
Hazel: No you absolutely have to do social media, it is required. What benefit would a brand have in sponsoring you if you didn’t promote your brand and theirs?
Hayden Kennedy wasn’t a pro-climber. He made his wage putting up Christmas lights and other work. He was loosely an ambassador for Patagonia but that just gave him free clothes, no wage. Hayden hated social media for many reasons and I respected him greatly for sticking by his values. It doesn’t mean that’s what everyone should do; each to their own.
Home Ownership
CC: You recently purchased your first house. What was the decision-making process like? For someone who spends so much of the year traveling, why do you want to own property? What do you do with your home when you are traveling?
Hazel: For a long time I’ve wanted a base, a place to leave my stuff and come home to between trips. So often I found myself injured or tired and had nowhere to go. Basic stuff like not having a local doctor or a postal address made my life difficult. I also wanted to invest my money in something. Two other people live with me so the house gets used whilst I’m away.
CC: Have you ever considered any other investment opportunities?
Hazel: I haven’t thought much about other investments but maybe I should.
CC: What’s a typical year-in-the-life? How much of the time are you at home? Is this schedule driven by you, or do you have sponsorship obligations to be in certain places at certain times?
Hazel: Well, I only just bought my house in August. I want to aim to be home for most of the spring and summer and leave for most of the Autumn and winter. This is driven by me but also work I have to do for sponsors and my coaching and speaking work.
If Not Climbing, What Else?
CC: In the world of climbing there’s a tendency to obsess over this sport. What’s most important to you in life besides climbing?
Hazel: I don’t really obsess over climbing I don’t think. I love climbing but if it’s not making me a better person then something is wrong. Being obsessed isn’t a good thing for you or others.
I’m pretty devoted to my own personal development, and I use climbing as a tool or a training ground to aid that process. I just spent five weeks climbing very little and I wasn’t bored. I love reading, study, yoga, running, cooking, chilling alone or with my boyfriend.
I’m someone who is never bored.
Parting Thoughts
That’s it for this week’s interview with Hazel Findlay.
If you’d like to learn more about Hazel’s climbing career and coaching opportunities, check out her website here. Hazel is also on Instagram.
Hazel and Mina Leslie-Wujastyk have also just released a new project, The Curious Climber Podcast. Check out their first interview with Beth Rodden here.
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Thanks guys, see you next week.
Please note, Hazel Findlay supplied all photos. Please reach out to her for permission to republish.
Hi. Good Q n A series. Check out Elizabeth Gilbert. I think these 2 passionate humans dovetail effectively.