Okay friends, let’s do an interview, shall we? This week I bring you Bethany Macke, a climber and trainer with a unique approach to correcting muscle imbalances and mechanics, an often-overlooked foundation to building movement skills. Bethany, along with her husband Adam, bring more than just a different approach to training. She also has an interesting story of change, adversity, and building meaningful work, even during the pandemic. And sometimes change comes in high doses. In the age of Covid, there’s much we can learn from Bethany’s resiliency, and mastery of the career and personal pivot. And of course, we even discuss a bit about the freedom of financial strength.
One quick note: Bethany has a lot of great little nuggets in this interview, so it’s a long one. Please let me know in the comments or via email if you’d prefer to see interviews this long broken into two or more parts. Or maybe you prefer it all in one place. Let me know!
Let’s go!
Bethany Macke: Introduction
I first discovered the Macke’s via a podcast interview with Adam Macke on the Training Beta podcast back in 2015. At the time, I had never heard of Muscle Activation Techniques (MAT). MAT is a system with a simple name that fits: get weak and inoperative muscles functioning again to enable appropriate movement patterns.
I was hooked. I found a MAT practitioner in the Denver area to work on some of my many muscle imbalance dysfunctions, with immediate results. Anyway, that’s another story, but there’s a little background on what the Macke’s have to offer in their services. You’ll hear more on MAT in the interview below.
Bethany Macke has spent 22 years as trainer in general fitness, with a background in sports that led to a focus on training and conditioning in college at Miami University of Ohio (B.S. Accounting).
Bethany eventually went on to secure her MBA from the University of Dayton, Ohio. With that degree, she was straddling work as a personal trainer, but also work in the corporate world. In 2006, Bethany moved from Dayton to Cincinnati, where she met Adam Macke and discovered climbing. I’ll let her pick it up from here.
Bethany Macke: Meeting Future Husband and Discovering Climbing
Bethany: In 2006, I started working as a personal trainer at a sports club in Cincinnati. Adam Macke, my now-husband, was the head trainer. I was going through a divorce, moved from Dayton to Cincinnati, and was at a point in my life where I needed to do what I “wanted” to do, not what other people “thought” I should do.
After college I held a corporate job but was a part-time personal trainer. It was time to take the leap and begin training full-time. Shortly after I was hired as a full-time trainer, I became the Fitness Director, which was awesome since I could train and manage the business.
At the time I was training for figure competitions, which is a modified body building event. This type of competition was very subjective. I only enjoyed the dedicated training and nutrition aspect, not being on stage trying to wow the judges.
Adam climbed in college but had taken a break for a few years. He thought I would enjoy something more performance-based and adventurous. He took me to the indoor gym a few times and we did a trip to the Red River Gorge. I was hooked—I loved the physical challenge and the fact that we were outside all day and with my dog, Toby.
I was almost 30 years old by this time and finally found a sport that made me feel complete.
(Related Post: The Fallacy of Happiness and Meaningful Work)
Bethany Macke on Relocating to Chattanooga, Tennessee
Bethany: Both Adam and I had recently gone through divorces. I think we both were ready for a change. One of his clients thought we should consider Chattanooga, as it was a fast-growing outdoor community within close proximity to climbing.
When Adam said we were moving for climbing—so we could climb every weekend—I wasn’t really sure what that meant. How the heck was I going to do errands, clean the house, etc if we were gone all day every weekend?
We took one trip to Chattanooga and both felt at home. I immediately put my house on the market and it sold right before the recession. Adam’s house sold within one week.
We found a house in Chattanooga that seemed perfect for us. Things were lining up and we believed that to be a good sign! We moved in the midst of the recession. However, we believe that if we can survive through hardships, we can accomplish anything we want.
(Related Post: The Shocking Headlines of the 2008 Financial Crisis)
Chattanooga and Building a Business Around Muscle Activation Techniques
Bethany: Chattanooga was an amazing place for work and climbing. Additionally, the city had a thriving climbing community.
During our time in Chattanooga we had our own studio, worked at a privately-owned fitness gym, SportsBarn, and the climbing gym, High Point Climbing and Fitness. Being the only Muscle Activation Techniques (MAT®️)** practitioners in Tennessee, we were able to provide a service for many individuals and athletes who suffered with muscular imbalances, or who valued muscular contractile efficiencies so that they could experience optimal performance in their sport.
Our business included personal training, both general fitness and with climbers. We also pursued some guiding work during our last summer in Chattanooga.
**A bit of background on MAT: When we experience stress, trauma, or overuse a muscle(s) can “shut down.” We compensate by either experiencing limited range of motion, tightness, pain, or compensation. MAT assesses and corrects muscular imbalance and restores muscle function.
I am a firm believer that we need to get comfortable at being uncomfortable.
Bethany Macke
Big Changes: Growing During Times of Adversity
CC: Much of your story is one of seizing opportunities, sometimes in the darkest days. Can you tell me about how your life has changed since the beginning of the pandemic, both professionally and personally?
Bethany: The biggest changes tend to happen all at once and coincide with difficult times.
First it was going through a divorce, moving to a new city, and changing careers. Then it was moving again and starting a new business during the recession. And recently, moving from Chattanooga, TN to St. George, UT, and starting a new business just months before the pandemic…the STRESS!
I am a firm believer that we need to get comfortable at being uncomfortable. We have to keep putting ourselves out there and experience the challenges. This is how we grow as individuals and also how we become better at adapting to change.
Relocating from Chattanooga, Tennessee to St. George, Utah
The move from Tennessee to Utah back in November 2019 was the hardest. All the other changes I supported, but this one wasn’t my idea initially. The change was harder to accept because I wasn’t ready for it. I wasn’t ready to be uncomfortable this time.
We had only visited St. George during a short climbing trip three years prior, so neither of us were familiar with the city, the fitness gyms, and we didn’t know anyone.
We researched and studied as much as we could, but probably more 8a studying than anything! I was torn between new opportunities and leaving my clients and friends. I was in Chattanooga training for 12 years. My clients were my family; many of them were with me for 10-12 years. To be in their corner all this time and then leave felt very lonely.
Chattanooga was the first city that ever felt like my home, and I couldn’t imagine any other place filling that space. It took a couple years to feel really good in Chattanooga and I was going to have to go through that all over again.
(Related Post: Selling Our House: On the Road, Pandemic Edition)
Watching the World Close Down
I cried every day, from the day I started telling my clients that we were moving to the day our gym in St. George closed due to Covid. I remember very clearly the Monday that I felt solid structure with my new client base and my MAT®️ practice. Three days later the gym closed!
I should have felt crushed, but I had just let go of the emotional aspect of the move. Keeping that momentum going and continuing to focus on the opportunities was key. I wasn’t going to let something beyond my control dictate my life. Hell no!
I have to take this into my own hands and deal. Tuning out surrounding negativity is something I can do well; I don’t want someone else dictating my emotions and energy level.
When doors close others open. That’s literally what took place as a result of the gym closing. I immediately used the change in my work environment to create more opportunities in my business.
(Related Post: Welcome to Your Emotions, Your Guide Today)
Bethany Macke on the Art of the Pivot: In-Person to Online Training and Coaching
CC: You have pivoted your business from mostly in-person training to focus more on remote, online training. Elaborate how this process occurred, or is still ongoing.
Bethany: I have always been an in-person trainer. But when the gyms closed, I realized that wasn’t going to be feasible in the short term.
The pandemic allowed me to take a step back and strategize the future. I was determined to find a way to be able to provide value and training services to clients in any situation. During the past few years I wanted to train and coach more clients, but there are only so many time slots to train in-person. How could I coach others when my time was limited?
I stayed busy during the time our gym was closed by doing Zoom training with clients and researching how to go about pivoting my business. I had people reaching out for online training. It was clear that they were needing some level of service to stay accountable and motivated.
Silver Linings and Guilt During a Pandemic
Bethany: If I hadn’t just experienced a stressful move, I might have let the pandemic cause me more distress. But I was over it and ready to grow and find opportunities.
When Covid happened, I became numb to the events going on and just kept moving forward. It has been hard to see my friends, family, and clients struggle during this time while I was trying to see the silver lining. I wanted to be able to share my excitement and ideas of how I wanted to pivot my business but felt that if I did, I would be showing a lack of compassion.
Changing Opinions on Remote Coaching
I was opposed to doing remote training in the past. I felt the level of service was not as valuable as what I can provide in-person. How would I determine my client’s progression without monitoring their ability to “own” the movement?
Both Adam and I have a strong background in biomechanics and load application. Therefore, the value we add during our training sessions is being able to monitor, adjust, and progress the client through any loaded exercise.
A Unique Level of Service
To give you a better visual, it’s not just about taking a dumbbell and doing bicep curls. Anyone can do that! We are monitoring the trunk, scapula, humeral motion, wrist, range of motion, tempo, etc. Depending on the client’s goals, their response, their ability to “own” the exercise, we may change the force angle, add another resistance profile, cue them to get more intensity, and alter their experience.
It is very difficult to provide that level of service and experience when we just give someone an exercise to do and say “do that during your training session.” By taking a step back from my regular training, I realized we have to be able to provide services at various levels. There will be some clients that are local and will benefit greatly from an in-person session, but I can provide a value ladder of training for others that aren’t local.
Bethany Macke: Working with Climbers
CC: What is your vision for your business as you move away from general fitness and more towards working with climbers? What are you offering that is different from many other climbing coaches and trainers?
Bethany: I will always continue working with general fitness. I enjoy the relationship that grows with my clients and the diversity in my client base is important to me.
However, as I am starting to work with climbers, I am finding that I can expand my services in many geographic areas. I am doing more remote and online training, and hope to be able to travel to more gyms in the near future.
There are a lot of pre-packaged training programs for climbers. I understand for some climbers they just need “something” to keep them accountable or motivated and such a program will help. However, I provide a level of service that is focused on the client, where they are at physically and mentally and where they need to go.
A Different Approach to Online Training
I am taking a different approach with my online training than many other trainers to include video analysis, education seminars, and regular follow-up. I want to provide the highest level of service and education for my clients. The goal is to share my knowledge with my clients, even if I am not with them during their training sessions.
The clients I am working with have shared that through my training and coaching they now understand WHY they are training a certain way. They now have the ability to feel the intensity and emphasis in specific muscles that is key for gaining strength. To contrast, before it was just performing movement. They realize that what they have been told in the past is not specific to their weaknesses or in alignment with their goals.
The Three Pillars of Climbing Training
I categorize climbing training in three pillars; muscles, mobility, and mindset. I focus on all three at varying levels with my clients depending on their needs.
For the in-person client, Both Adam and I can properly assess and correct muscular imbalances with MAT, and that is a game changer for the climber. Once a client recognizes there are muscular limitations that inhibit them from certain skill sets or movements, their mindset shifts dramatically. They become much more aware of their movement, and how muscles control the movement. That makes a big impact on their proprioceptive awareness on the wall.
The client immediately realizes their potential and becomes more motivated to train specifically to overcome limitations they have experienced, and gain strength in areas that will make a significant impact in their climbing.
For both the in-person client and online client, I place significant emphasis on the WHYs of our training. As my business grows, I would like to be able to provide more education services, and even work with other trainers who are wanting to get into the field of training climbers.
Social Media: Where Are We Headed?
CC: Social media is more important now than ever for marketing online and remote businesses. How has your social media use changed over the years, particularly since the pandemic and lockdowns began?
Bethany: The pandemic really opened my eyes to the benefits of social media. I have always wanted to be able to share education, content, etc, but I was always in the gym with very little down time. My climbing days are reserved for my mental focus on just climbing.
For the last few years friends and clients have bugged me to get a YouTube channel or do more social media. I always found an excuse that I didn’t have the time to be consistent. But since moving, I started to carve out time to share on social media. When Covid hit I recognized the importance in connecting with people.
I was amazed that I could feel connected to people through the digital world. As an educator, I enjoy sharing knowledge as part of my job as a trainer. I have embraced the positive aspects of social media and tune out anything that could cause negative emotions.
Can a Trainer Become a Crutch?
CC: How can a client weed through potential coaches or trainers? In particular, how can we know that a coach or trainer is there to empower us versus enable us? In other words, at what point can we take what we’ve learned from a practitioner and move on instead of feeling like we must continually return for more hands-on instruction or body work? How do you balance that as a professional who wants regular clients?
Bethany: For many clients, they will seek out a professional and utilize that trainer’s expertise continually (for years). That trainer is the one that is continually staying educated and keeping the client motivated and accountable. My job as a trainer is to always be providing value during sessions and my clients expect that level of service. For most of us, our goals don’t end, but we continually seek more. As a trainer, we are in their corner throughout.
However, I understand some individuals want to invest in the trainer for a shorter duration. It is impossible to be able to educate a client in all that the professional knows, but the client and the professional should establish set goals for their time together.
Unfortunately, not all trainers have the same level of education. Some have textbook knowledge, and it may take years to develop a level of advanced critical thinking. In that case, it can be a challenge to be able to communicate with a client that is more interested in the WHYs behind their training. So, as a client, you may feel they are enabling. However, it may be due to the trainer’s limited background, or even their skillset of being able to educate.
It’s very hard to be able to seek out new opportunities when we don’t stop doing what we are doing.
Bethany Macke
Bethany Macke on Breaking the Cycle of Life and Creating Change
CC: You mentioned that your move to St. George was mutual between your husband and you, but that you are perhaps a bit more averse to change. It’s easy to stay put in life, but how has getting out of your comfort bubble resulted in beneficial change? This could be related to your recent move, or any other facets of life.
Bethany: Adam was the one who wanted to move initially. Anyone who knows my training schedule or meal plans is well aware that I’m very structured. Starting our business in a new city meant having little structure in my schedule.
So, if change means having to have lack of structure or new structure, I resist at first. Although I emotionally struggled with the change, I recognized that I had to close doors to open new doors.
It’s very hard to be able to seek out new opportunities when we don’t stop doing what we are doing. I had been wanting to work with more MAT®️ clients. I also wanted to find a way to work with more clients through online training. Having to start our business over allowed me to redirect my focus in these areas.
I have experienced lots of change in my life, and each time growing professionally and personally. When faced with a challenge, I accept it. I know that I will benefit. The most rewarding part is getting outside the comfort bubble; when I know I can do that, I am more confident and empowered.
How Bethany Macke Eliminated Debt to Pursue Meaningful Work
Becoming Debt-Free
Bethany: Adam and I both agree that we want to live a life debt-free. We never over-extended ourselves and made sure we never had debt, aside from our mortgage. We got serious about paying off our house a few years after moving to Chattanooga.
At first, we were both full-time trainers, but I was missing some aspects of the Fitness Director position that I had in Cincinnati. I decided to take on a corporate job to get my “business fix” and still train on the side. I worked a ton, trained clients, trained myself, and was a weekend warrior. We focused hard on saving, did some Airbnb, had housemates, and finally paid off our house. We were finally debt-free!
Related Post: Should I Buy a Home? Part 1)
Saving One Income Stream to Pursue a Different Career
During this time, Adam was working three days and climbing outside four. I was getting a bit resentful that he was climbing so much outdoors. We were able to take a few month-long climbing trips in the summer, and I realized I needed to make a change in my career to be able focus more on climbing. Plus, I was not able to pursue my personal training career to the level that I desired.
Before I was going to leave the corporate job and train full-time again, we wanted to be confident that we could be financially comfortable while I built up my business again. We were already good savers and contributed regularly to our retirement funds, but we set another goal of being able to live off just Adam’s income. We did this for about a year, and we put all my earnings into savings. With this level of savings, we knew I was ready to leave corporate and grow my business.
Working for a Someone Versus For Yourself
CC: Can you discuss the evolution of working for a gym versus building your own business? How long did it take you to feel like you were a professional worthy of going out on your own?
Bethany: I have always wanted my own gym, big or small. I love the entrepreneur aspect of growing a business.
At the same time, it is a lot less stressful to be working in a larger gym setting. For instance, I don’t have to worry about the overhead. Also, the larger gyms have so much energy and state-of-the-art equipment!
When Adam and I moved from Cincinnati to Chattanooga, we started as contractors for a privately-owned fitness facility, but then moved into our own space within two years.
I wouldn’t say it was about being professional-worthy so much as it was a way for us to be able to offer our MAT®️ services. These services required a quieter setting, and we enjoyed having a more intimate setting with our clients. When High Point Climbing and Fitness opened in Chattanooga, we shifted some of our business there.
We were starting to train climbers and needed the space High Point offered. Since we were leaving our studio space, we went back to the fitness gym as well. We wanted a space where we could take our general fitness clients to a gym with appropriate equipment. This time the gym provided us with space for our MAT®️ practice.
We also started incorporating indoor climbing training with our general fitness clients. It was a great experience for them to be able to have a way to build confidence and trust in themselves, and have another avenue for building fitness.
Working, Living, and Recreating with a Significant Other
CC: What are the challenges and opportunities of working, living, and recreating with your husband?
Bethany: The biggest challenge has been recognizing that we are not the same person. We are passionate about climbing and both love our jobs as personal trainers, so I often think we should be “doing” the same thing.
A Tendency to Compare
I used to compare myself to him in climbing, becoming frustrated that he would send quicker than me. I would get down on myself when he could do one more pitch than me or find one more boulder to work on. And when it comes to work, we both have different approaches on how we go about our day and have different ideas on the direction we will take. Whenever I start comparing, I have to stop and reflect on my own aspirations and tune out our differences. The more I do this the stronger and more confident I become!
Although we have similar interests, our skill sets are very different. These differences provide us with good balance and opportunities for growth. How we go about our work and our mindset and goal setting for climbing are different. But these differences keep me open-minded. Although I can be stubborn, I need to ask his opinion for a different perspective. We are fortunate to be able to have each other as climbing partners, although we may not always agree on where we are climbing. My solution to that is let him decide!! He’ll probably disagree with me on that one!
Bethany Macke on What’s Missing from the Current World of Coach and Training for Climbers
Bethany: The skill of climbing requires practice, but it also requires contractile efficiency of the musculoskeletal system. The one area that is missing in the current realm of coaching for climbing is the ability to understand how the muscles are contributing to the skill of climbing. Many climbing trainers may guess or generalize what clients need.
For example, if a climber is struggling with a heel hook, most trainers may try to cue the movement, or assume the climber needs to work on hamstring strength. They may try to visually assess the climber while climbing. However, there are so many muscles contributing to the movement that compensation will always be the name of the game.
Climbers (just like any other athlete) will always choose the path of least resistance to achieve the desired movement. Therefore, if there are weak or inefficient muscles, these muscles will always be the weakest link and not contribute to the movement. It is impossible to know the weakest link without a proper assessment and test. Otherwise, it will be a guessing game and trial-and-error.
My background allows me to be able to assess and identify these limitations, utilizing Muscle Activation Techniques. For example, instead of assuming the hamstring is weak, I am able to assess the climber, and determine the limitation may not even be any of the hamstring muscles. Instead, the psoas major or even external oblique may be weak. Yes, a weak muscle may cause motion elsewhere in the body to be affected.
This type of assessment is done off the wall. An understanding of biomechanics is imperative if we are going to address motions of any sport. An athlete can continue to train skill, but they will always be limited by their muscular limitations. But if we address those limitations, the skill becomes easier as the muscles can begin functioning efficiently and with greater force potential.
Final Advise for New Trainers and Coaches
Bethany: Education is key, but not just any education: education that forces you to apply critical thinking.
Certifications Don’t Necessarily Equal Education
I have managed trainers in Chattanooga and currently am the training manager for a gym in St. George. The one thing that can really set one trainer apart from others is education. Too many people think the more certifications the better, but I know trainers with a long list of certifications who still don’t understand biomechanics or load application. There is a lot of regurgitation of information, but memorizing doesn’t help when you don’t understand the WHYs.
Train Different Types of Clients
I would also recommend if you are interested in training, take the opportunity to train many different types of clients. We all have the same musculoskeletal system and therefore it doesn’t matter if it’s a golfer or a climber. We still need to learn how to apply load to that client based upon their abilities, limitations, and goals. But the more experience one has, the more one has to offer as their career grows.
Summary
If you’d like to reach out to Bethany or learn more about her story or her training services, please check out these links below.
Instagram: @mackefitness
Facebook: Macke Fitness; Bethany Macke
Facebook Group “Muscles + Mobility + Mindset”
Email: bethany.macke@gmail.com
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