Alrighty folks, we’re back on the interview bandwagon! This week I am pleased to bring you an interview with the industrious and energetic Lauren Abernathy. Lauren is a 25-year old professional, fully-obsessed climber, writer, and lover of adventure. And she’s a boss of her money.
At an age when Lauren began optimizing her professional life and learning to save for her freedom, I was trying to free myself from four to three nightly PBR’s.
Grab a cup of coffee, PBR, or whatever and let’s settle into some incredibly important life lessons for those at any point along their journey.
Hard Times for an Interview
With the world being turned upside down and all, I’ve been struggling to conjure up a good interview candidate. I don’t want to talk about pull-ups in the kitchen, nor do I want to discuss comparatively trivial subjects, like whether or not we should go climbing. Sorry, but you’ve heard enough of that world, right?
But then I thought of Lauren Abernathy.
Lauren Abernathy: An Introduction
Lauren Abernathy isn’t a pro climber or a business owner. Like so many of us, Lauren is relatively new to the professional world, working as a Product Developer for L’Oreal Paris Skincare in New York City. And she’s still fighting to maximize adventure in the margins. And a fight it is.
Lauren lives with her boyfriend Michael in a one-bedroom apartment in Hoboken, New Jersey, just across the Hudson River from Manhattan, far from good rock climbing in normal times. Together they now find themselves quarantined in a small space. They are square in the middle of one of the globe’s largest epicenters of the coronavirus pandemic.
I know Lauren from her Instagram account for her website senderellastory.com, where she documents her evolution as a climber and her love for training. We connected over two seemingly unrelated sources of life optimization: training for climbing and personal finance. Weird, I know, right?
Despite the current world events, Lauren exudes an incredible amount of positive energy around a situation that is destroying more lives as the days pass: physically, emotionally, and financially. Many of you will see her as a relatable source of inspiration, and most importantly, someone who can motivate action.
In this wide-ranging interview, we discuss climbing, careers, time management, and saving towards financial freedom. Lauren threw so many quotable lines at me; I had to eventually draw a line in the sand and just let you read.
Lauren’s Proud Climbing Achievement
Lauren has been climbing for five years. She discovered the sport while pursuing her degree in Chemical Engineering from Ohio State.
CC: What is a climbing achievement that made you proud? Not necessarily hardest grades, but something that pushed you.
Lauren: My proudest send is also one of my hardest. Last fall I did Flesh for Lulu (5.12a/b) in Rumney, NH. I usually prefer steep, overhanging climbing (I started climbing at the Red River Gorge) and this is a vertical, technical route with some nasty holds.
This route was kind of an “eat your vegetables” project. I am super proud of the send, but working it felt like a bit of a chore sometimes. The first weekend I tried it, I stuck the crux move once out of maybe 40+ attempts at it. I figured there was no way I would send that season since I could barely get past crux #1 (there’s another 40-ish feet of climbing with another crux before the chains).
The next weekend it was 15 degrees cooler, the crimps were a lot better, and I stuck the crux every time. It was a battle but I did send it that weekend. Proud that I persevered and did it even though I was not that psyched on the route overall. It’s definitely a classic at Rumney, no shade on the route itself. If you like vert, it’s a must-do!
On Building a Career…
Lauren: Currently I work as a Product Developer for L’Oreal Paris Skincare. I started out as an engineer in one of L’Oreal’s manufacturing plants. It was great, but manufacturing demands working weekends on occasion which was not my cup of tea.
I made the switch to corporate product development two years ago and moved to the NYC area. So far it has been really interesting to learn how products are launched. It’s also interesting to be in touch with the New York beauty scene. That sounds excessively glamorous, but I don’t know how else to describe it, I’m from suburban Ohio.
Working with marketing to launch skincare products is a huge shift from managing contractors in a manufacturing plant. Essentially, I manage product launches from marketing conception through the manufacturing of it. I interact with a lot of different job functions to get all of that done.
The pace that comes with the beauty industry can be nauseating. I have better “work/life balance” now that I have moved to New York. However, when I am at work, it is stressful and demanding. It can be emotionally exhausting at times. I enjoy seeing the end product on shelf, but it takes blood, sweat, and sometimes literal tears (of my own) to get it there.
It fundamentally pisses me of when time gets wasted on useless things…
Lauren Abernathy
Lauren Abernathy on Building a Website
CC: Why did you start senderellastory.com?
Lauren: A couple of years ago Mike and I packed up our Ohio life and moved to New Jersey, just across the Hudson from Manhattan. It seemed like a fresh start and I wanted to try something new. I was pretty psyched about training for climbing (I had sent my first 5.11b earlier that spring after some functional training cycles).
I wanted to learn a new skill so I thought I would try my hand at making a blog. There really wasn’t any expectation that anyone would read it. And for months almost no one did!
My main objective for starting the blog was to share my climbing journey with other people who are weekend warrior-ing and don’t have exceptional amounts of time to train. I’m an engineer at heart so I love optimization.
I suppose it fundamentally pisses me off when time gets wasted on useless things, especially when it comes to climbing training. I wanted to provide a resource from the perspective of an average person on how to avoid wasting valuable training time for those who don’t have much available.
(Related Post: Steve Bechtel: The Importance of Time)
Lauren Abernathy: Working Towards Financial Freedom
CC: Explain how you discovered the concepts of financial independence and why you were attracted to the concept. How have these concepts reframed your perspective on money and what are your long-term goals once you achieve strong financial stability or financial independence?
I don’t want to waste [money] on things I don’t actually find valuable.
Lauren Abernathy
Lauren: I discovered the financial independence concept from a coworker at my first position in L’Oreal. He would always say “40 more years of this,” to poke fun at me when I was frustrated with work or whatever. I was right out of college and doing anything for forty years seemed patently absurd. He started recommending various podcasts, etc. (e.g., ChooseFI). and I was hooked on being smart with my money.
Value Spending
My perspective on money is that I don’t want to waste it on things I don’t actually find valuable. I would not say I am “cheap” by any means. However, in the pursuit of saving as much money as possible, I avoid spending on what seems useless to me.
(Related Post: But I Don’t Want to Be Frugal)
For example, I don’t care about nice cars so I’m still driving my 2009 Corolla from when I turned 16. I still have my tiny TV that I bought before college from Costco. However, between the two of us, my boyfriend and I own nine pairs of skis that we ride regularly, and we go on a lot of trips.
The Common Ground Between Training and Financial Optimization
…I suppose you measure what you give a shit about. I care about being financially responsible and getting better at climbing. So I track these things.
Lauren Abernathy
Lauren: Coach Paul Corsaro likes to say “What gets measured gets managed.” And I suppose you measure what you give a shit about. I care about being financially responsible and getting better at climbing. So I track these things. I have my training spreadsheet and I have a budget spreadsheet. That’s it.
I also notice some parallels between the way I train and my finances. I prefer to keep them as simple as possible. It’s easier to be habitual when things are simple.
For example, right now most of my investing is through my 401(k). I made a goal of how much I wanted to put into it based on my desired savings rate. Then, in January of last year, I set up the automation to take it out of my paycheck. I’m 95% in index funds, 5% in bonds. I max out my Health Savings Account.
*CC Interjection: Check out this post to see why the Health Savings Account is the ultimate retirement account. Neato!
People get into the weeds of whether to do pre-tax or post-tax, or whatever. Personally, I knew that I’d be better off automating this decision instead of “trying” to put a certain amount of cash in an investment account every month. I also save some cash each month in case of a rainy day.
(Does this all sound like Greek? Check out these posts for more: The CC Family Investing Strategy, Part 1 and Part 2)
Weekly Budget Meetings
CC: Describe the weekly budget meetings you have with your boyfriend.
Lauren: My boyfriend and I each enter our expenses into a spreadsheet. Then, once a week (the time shifts because of our variable schedules), we go through and evaluate how we’re doing vs. what we budgeted.
I think it’s a really helpful thing to do. It helps us be mindful about what we’re spending on. Towards the end of the month we make our budget for the following month. We’re in our second year of doing this. It’s great to have the data – for instance, when we planned our ski trip this year, our budgeting was accurate since we had the data on what we spent on the trip last year.
Lauren Abernathy on Building a Meaningful Career
CC: You are young and early in your career. What do you think you have to learn from corporate life and what advice do you have for others just getting started with their career? Have you experienced increasing flexibility and job satisfaction as you increase your skill set?
Lauren: Corporate life has improved my communication skills and general work throughput significantly. Though it stresses me out, I am challenged and I know I’m gaining valuable skills that will carry me through my career and my life.
My job requires constant negotiation and problem solving. Two years ago, I don’t think I could have held my own at a car dealership. Now, I think all 5’4” of me could get a pretty good deal if I wanted to.
If you are just getting started in your career and you don’t think your job is making you better, I advise going somewhere else. Though I don’t think a job where you are critically stressed out is advisable, having a job that challenges you and makes you better will behoove you in the long run.
As I’ve grown in my career I can definitely see that doing your best at your job will win you more flexibility. When I started my career at L’Oreal, I worked at a manufacturing plant. I could not work from home and sometimes I needed to work through the weekend.
Now, I have a lot more work-from-home flexibility. My boss and I work really well together and she is pretty relaxed about letting me work where and how I want to. This is partially due to valuable company policy, but also partially because my management trusts me. For example, I usually work remotely from my parent’s house around the holidays and I’ve done a few days of remote work during climbing and skiing trips on rest days.
(Related Post: The Fallacy of Happiness and Meaningful Work)
Balancing Financial Stability and a Life of Adventure
CC: How do you balance the need to be adventurous, travel, etc., with the need for financial stability?
Lauren: I think it all comes down to mindfulness with your expendable income. I know that travel and my favorite sports are the priority so I don’t spend too much money on things I don’t care about.
Additionally, when it comes to travel, I think climbing trips are quite a bit cheaper than a week at an all-inclusive resort in Cabo. It helps that my idea of an amazing vacation is a cabin in the middle of nowhere Kentucky to go rock climbing. I have taken a few trips to Spain which cost a little more, but I have ways of keeping the costs down on those as well.
Lauren’s Money-Saving Tips on Travel
Lauren: My top tips for saving money on travel is effectively using credit card rewards points. I am also a HUGE fan of Scott’s Cheap Flights. I have never paid more than $350 round trip to go to Spain in my life because of their services ($40/year makes it totally worth it).
Additionally, camping or splitting an Airbnb makes lodging a lot cheaper. I love organizing group trips with friends that are spread throughout the country. Sharing lodging and groceries in groups makes things more affordable too.
Lauren’s money-saving travel tips for her trip to Mallorca here.
A few of my own travel rewards tips and articles:
Traveling Abroad: You’re Paying Too Much
Mallorca: January Adventures and the Cost to Do It
The Astonishing Cost of Unused Vacation
Sicily, Part 3: Two Weeks, Two People, $1,300
When you’re younger, building the habit of saving and investing is possibly more important than what you invest it in.
Lauren Abernathy
Lauren Abernathy: A New Investor During Volatile Times
CC: I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you’ve only been investing over a short time frame. What advice do you have for early-career investors? Why is it important to you to be investing? How do you stay the course during times of so much volatility?
Lauren: My advice is to just start.
When you’re younger, building the habit of saving and investing is possibly more important than what you invest it in. If you’re young, figure out how much you can save a month, open up an account, pick something with a low expense ratio and just do it.
Investing is a habit to me like brushing my teeth. It’s important because, just like training for climbing, a little discipline now means a big payoff later.
This is my first cycle of volatility. Since I’m so far from needing my funds, I am really not concerned. I keep telling myself that I’m buying stocks on sale. I’m also not trying to do any sort of market timing. I don’t have time and I don’t really care. My investing happens automatically once a month and I’m sure that the consistency of that over this time period will pay off just fine.
(Related Post: Shocking Headlines of the 2008 Financial Crisis (And Why They Are So Important Now)
Finding Work/Life Balance
CC: Finding time from a busy work life is a common complaint among folks trying to stay in shape or pursue a sport. How do you prioritize climbing and training without sacrificing your productivity at work?
Step 1: Create a Plan
Lauren: I think making a plan and carving out the time is critical. Of course doing a good job at work is important to me, but there’s a point of diminishing returns when it comes to staying in the office too long. Other people leave to go pick up their kids from daycare. Though I don’t have kids, climbing is important to me so I make it a point to leave to meet those commitments to myself.
Practically speaking, at the beginning of the week, I lay out what my plan is and do what I can to stick with it. Once I’m in the groove of a program, I don’t even really have to think about the plan really. “I’m hangboarding and lifting before work on Tuesday” becomes a fact of life. Writing what I’m going to do in my training notebook helps me keep it together and stick to the plan.
Step 2: Be Flexible
Keep in mind though, that plans don’t always work out. However, by learning about training for climbing, I’ve empowered myself to alter my plans and make adjustments on the fly. So work got hectic, I left an hour later than I wanted to and traffic sucks? No problem, instead of doing that long session tonight, I’ll substitute with a little bit of endurance since I only have 45 minutes and re-shuffle the rest of the week. No big deal.
Step 3: Stick to the Plan
I always have a training plan that I’m working through. I want to get better at climbing so I go into the gym with a plan of attack. People think I’m no fun. But I think getting better and sending shit is fun. To each their own.
Step 4: Let Others Know What’s Important
Also, I think I should mention that getting outside to sport climb where I live is a bit of a pain in the ass. In a weekend my boyfriend and I drive about 12 hours round trip to go climb in Rumney, New Hampshire in the fall. We get up there quite a bit despite the drive, informing relatives, family and friends that fall is climbing season.
Step 5: Acknowledge Privilege Where It Exists…But Capitalize On It
I know that I am privileged to be able to do this kind of thing on the weekends, but it is definitely exhausting. I’m also very glad that I live with my climbing partner. I am endlessly impressed with those who have to work to coordinate partners. My only challenge is to get my partner out of bed at 4 am on Saturday mornings.
I do think my situation is pretty cushy. Many other weekend warriors struggle with more variable work schedules, or navigating training when their jobs require manual labor. That’s really tough. I’m always impressed by people who train and do hard labor for their employment. Genuinely blows my mind.
I also recognize that I’m certainly privileged in my middle class upbringing. My engineering degree was not handed to me, but it sure did help that I grew up in a house that valued education with parents that taught me about money from a young age.
However, no matter what your situation in life, rocks don’t care. Rocks don’t care if you’re super short, or if you like your job, or who your parents are. If you want to send, you have to put in the work, whatever that looks like for you.
Summary:
Whoa! That’s a long one, so I’ll keep this short and sweet. I greatly appreciate Lauren’s willingness to write all this up. I hope she can be a source of inspiration to folks both young and…well…more seasoned. If anyone has any questions for Lauren, please drop them in the comments below. We can get them answered here, or get you in contact with Lauren directly as necessary.
Website: senderellastory.com (Lauren also occasionally writes for the Power Company Climbing blog from time to time.)
Instagram: @senderellaclimbs
Facebook: Senderella Climbs
(Featured Image Photo Credit: Teagan Maddux)
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Thanks guys, see you next week.